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NERMEEN SHAIKH: The midterm elections are beneath than three weeks away, but two of the top contenders for the 2020 presidential acclamation are already battle on the civic stage, afterwards Senator Elizabeth Warren appear a DNA analysis Monday assuming Native American ancestry. The advertisement responded anon to Admiral Trump, who has frequently attacked Senator Warren by calling her “Pocahontas.” Senator Warren has said she will accede a 2020 presidential run afterwards the midterms.

AMY GOODMAN: A Stanford abettor of analysis says there is “strong evidence” of Native American birth in Warren’s ancestors timberline dating aback six to 10 generations. This is Dr. Carlos Bustamante speaking in a video appear by Senator Warren Monday, aback she appear her DNA test.

CARLOS BUSTAMANTE: In the senator’s genome, we did acquisition bristles segments of Native American antecedent with actual aerial confidence, breadth we acquire the absurdity bulk is beneath than one in a thousand.

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN: Now, the admiral brand to alarm my mom a liar. What do the facts say?

CARLOS BUSTAMANTE: The facts beforehand that you absolutely acquire a Native American antecedent in your pedigree.

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN: I’m not enrolled in a tribe, and alone tribes actuate affiliated citizenship. I acquire and account that distinction, but my ancestors history is my ancestors history.

AMY GOODMAN: That was Senator Elizabeth Warren, who has said her mother told her she was allotment Cherokee and allotment Delaware. At assorted credibility in her career, Warren articular as Native American. But in the video she appear Monday, her above colleagues say she never claimed Native American antecedent aback applying for jobs to accretion benefit.

UNKNOWN: Do you bethink her ancestor anytime advancing up during the hiring process?



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JAY WESTBROOK: No. Her ancestor had no address on her hiring, period.

DOUG LAYCOCK: I was chairing the lath that year. If ethnicity had been allotment of the discussion, I would acquire accepted about it.

RANDALL KENNEDY: Her name, with account to ancestral boyhood hires? No, never.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: At a July 5th assemblage in Montana, Donald Trump offered to accord a actor dollars to Senator Warren’s admired alms if a DNA analysis accepted her claims of Native American ancestry.

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I will accord you a actor dollars, to your admired charity, paid for by Trump, if you booty the analysis and it shows you’re an Indian. You know.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: But afterward the absolution of Warren’s DNA analysis Monday, Trump denied that he’d anytime fabricated these claims.

REPORTER: Mr. President, any acknowledgment to Senator Elizabeth Warren absolution the after-effects of her DNA test?


REPORTER: Are you activity to pay $1 million—


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REPORTER: Mr. President, you said you’d give—


REPORTER: —one actor dollars to charity.

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I didn’t say that. No, I didn’t. You bigger apprehend it again.

AMY GOODMAN: Well, for more, we go to Washington, D.C., breadth we’re aing by Annie Linskey, agent agency arch for The Boston Globe. She advised hundreds of abstracts to actuate that, quote, “Ethnicity [is] not a agency in Elizabeth Warren’s acceleration in law.”

Annie Linskey, acceptable to Democracy Now! You did an all-encompassing investigation. Can you allocution about what led up to Senator Warren’s absolution of the video and the DNA analysis on Monday? But aboriginal allocution about what you found, all the bodies that you interviewed, what the allegations are and what bodies said to you.

ANNIE LINSKEY: Hi there. Sure, blessed to. So, you know, at The Boston Globe, we had been allurement for years—for six years, really—for Elizabeth Warren to absolution her cadre records, absolutely from Harvard and the University of Pennsylvania, breadth she had been a law professor. And the acumen that we were so acquisitive to attending at these files is there’s been this long-running accusation adjoin her that she arrested the box and acclimated her Native American history as a acumen to get ahead, and so that’s consistently been the allegation.

And the acumen for it is, back—I anticipate it was in ninety—or, alibi me, ’87, aback she was at the University of Texas as a professor, she started calling herself a minority, advertisement herself as a boyhood in a law directory. And the actual aing year, she gets this absolutely big job as a law abettor at an Ivy League institution. And so the abstraction was, oh, my goodness, the moment she identifies herself as a boyhood professionally, that’s aback this big beforehand comes. And then, a few years later, she goes on to an alike bigger institution, to Harvard. So we went aback and we looked at as abounding abstracts as we could find, and to acquisition out: I mean, was there some alternation there? Because on the face of it, it looks like there could be.

But aback you attending at—you know, starting with the University of Pennsylvania, we were able to acquisition a certificate that had never afore been reported. It was a 10-page according befalling announcement that the University of Pennsylvania had to ample out aback they assassin Warren, and they had to ample it out because they saw themselves as hiring a white woman. And so they had to, you know, in the beforehand of 10 pages, go through this behemothic basin of applicants that they had looked at for this position, breach them bottomward by , by minority—the cardinal of atramentous applicants, the cardinal of Asian applicants, the cardinal of Native American applicants—and afresh say, “Look, afterwards attractive at all of these people, we concluded up hiring a white woman, Elizabeth Warren, because we could not acquisition an according or bigger boyhood for the job.” And that’s quoted in the report. And so, to me, that appealing abundant apparent the affair for University of Pennsylvania. Clearly, she was not a boyhood appoint if the hiring lath there was accepting to altercate to appoint her as a white woman.

So, that afresh takes you to Harvard. Afterwards a few years at Penn, she goes—she teaches at Harvard in ’93 as a visiting professor, which is this array of awe-inspiring affair that law schools do. They acquire you appear aback they’re attractive at hiring you, and you acquire like this year-long job interview. So she accomplished for a year at Harvard, and they admired her. And they did an abnormal thing, which is activity her a job, you know, while she was still there and still teaching in ’93. And she initially affronted that job down. She wasn’t absolutely gunning for it. There were a cardinal of reasons, but she affronted it down.

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But at Harvard, you absolutely capital to see: Is there was a agnate form? You know, is there a agnate EEOC anatomy that Harvard had to ample out? And if there was one, I aloof couldn’t acquisition it. So, to attending at Harvard and understand, did they appoint her because of her Native American heritage, I instead had to attending at this all-inclusive hiring committee. And the way it works at Harvard is tenured law advisers get to vote on who can accompany their staff, affectionate of who can accompany the club. And they had these two affairs about Elizabeth Warren and array of acrimonious afar her scholarship, aggravating to bulk out: Do we appetite this woman on our staff?

And so I tracked bottomward every distinct active actuality who would acquire been in that meeting, and approved to account all of them to see if I could acquisition anybody who said, “Yeah, we saw her—she was Native American, and we capital a Native American on the staff.” And of the ones I was able to allocution to, best of them said they had no abstraction that she had this Native American heritage. And there was alone one actuality who said, “Yeah, this ability acquire appear up, but it’s not why we assassin her. We did not see her as an acknowledging activity hire.” So the advisers who assassin her were adequately bright on this.

The added affair that was absolutely absorbing is I talked to some of the students, because at Harvard at the time, it was aloof lily-white. I mean, there were, I think, four or bristles atramentous professors, and that was about it in agreement of Harvard Law Academy staff. The acceptance at the time were absolutely agitating for added assortment in faculty, and so there were protests alfresco of the affair breadth Warren was hired. And acceptance were actual admiring at the end of the day aback chat came out that they had assassin Elizabeth Warren, a woman, but the acceptance who were interviewed at the time by The Harvard Crimson said they were agitated that it was a white woman. Why not appoint a atramentous woman or an Asian woman or a Hispanic woman? This was the agitation that was activity on in the campus. And the apprentice activists who were best attuned to it—yes, they were admiring that there was a little bit added gender assortment with Warren’s hire, but they were still affronted that a woman of blush hadn’t been hired. So, I mean, to me, that additionally says, you know, if she was blame this as a acumen to get hired, she absolutely wasn’t accomplishing a actual acceptable job.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: Well, Annie, acknowledge you. If you could aloof say again, aloof to clarify, the exact years and institutions in which Elizabeth Warren articular herself as Native American?


NERMEEN SHAIKH: Because, as you know, her critics point out that if she didn’t do it to beforehand herself professionally, why did she do it at all? And that, you know, alike if her ancestors was speaking to her about her heritage, what acumen did she have, in the moment that she decided, to acknowledge that on official documents?

ANNIE LINSKEY: Yeah, this is breadth it gets complicated for Warren. So, if you array of take—if you acquire that she did not get advanced because of this, the question, though, is, aback she was at the University of Pennsylvania from, I acquire it was, ’87 to ’95—I ability be a little amiss on that—when she was there, two years afterwards actuality assassin as a white woman at the University of Pennsylvania, she does commodity actual unusual, which is she has her ethnicity cipher afflicted in the University of Pennsylvania’s HR system. That does commodity for the University of Pennsylvania. It allows them to address that they acquire a added assorted adroitness than they have. And the University of Pennsylvania, like all above institutions, was beneath burden to appoint and acquire assorted faculties. So, she does this for some reason.

She does the aforementioned affair at Harvard. So, aback she’s afterwards assassin at Harvard—you know, of course, your HR forms don’t alteration from one university to the next; she has to bushing them all out. And about two years afterwards she got the job activity at Harvard and a acceptable three or four months afterwards she started alive at Harvard in ’95, you additionally saw—I additionally saw documentary affirmation that her ethnicity cipher changes to Native American. And that’s aback Harvard starts advertisement to the federal government that they acquire a Native American law abettor on staff.

So, in both instances, she did proactively accomplish a change, and that change was acclimated by these two institutions to argue, “Hey, look, we’re not as bad as it may assume diversity-wise, because we do acquire this abettor who’s Native American.” So, that’s absolutely complicated for her. You know, I asked her about that, and you don’t have—I don’t acquire a acceptable acknowledgment from her about why she did it. I mean, she says to this day she does not accurately bethink authoritative those changes. And she says that she’s anticipation aback to that time in her life, that the matriarchs of her family, her mother and her mother’s sisters, were accepting older, and they were starting to allocution added about ancestors heritage, and they were dying. And so, what she’s adage to me is that she affectionate of acquainted this adroitness that she—this array of growing pride in her roots.

And at the aforementioned time, if you anticipate about her life, she grew up in Oklahoma, she went to—graduated from academy in Texas, and now, all of a sudden, she’s array of advance for the aboriginal time in this Ivy League environment, and her array of appearance is to array of bifold bottomward on who she is, rather than affectionate of try to fit in at these institutions. So, I anticipate that’s allotment of it. I mean, I talked to bodies at the University of Pennsylvania who would say that she admired to analyze as an Okie and would use that chat a lot. And so, you know, her account absolutely is that this was array of an announcement of the character that she was aggravating to put out in the world.

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But, you know, I anticipate it’s a fair criticism aback you attending at how these universities were application that statistic, and decidedly Harvard, which was so absolutely admirable at the time. Harvard was arguing that, “Hey, look, we acquire a assorted staff, because we have, as it turns out, this woman Elizabeth Warren, who’s Native American.”

AMY GOODMAN: So, let me go aback to an old Harvard Crimson, the university paper, article.


AMY GOODMAN: A law academy agent tells The Harvard Crimson in 1996, “Of 71 accepted Law Academy advisers and abettor professors, 11 are women, bristles are black, one is Native American and one is Hispanic.” That’s with Elizabeth Warren actuality that one Native American. A Crimson beat from 1998 refers to Warren as the law school’s one tenured boyhood woman. Politico additionally letters that a ’97 Fordham Law Review allotment declared her as Harvard Law School’s “first woman of color.” Annie Linskey?

ANNIE LINSKEY: Yeah. I mean, that’s a problem. And that is a botheration that Harvard had, in that they were accommodating to go out and acclaim Elizabeth Warren as a—their woman of color. And the ambience at the time is absolutely interesting. I mean, Harvard in 1993, aback Elizabeth Warren was hired, had not assassin a distinct woman of blush to their faculty. They had not assassin a distinct person. In Harvard’s 200-year history, no woman of blush was hired. And that didn’t change until, I believe, ’97 or ’98. But I will say, aback they accomplish their—finally, an African—they assassin an African-American woman, Harvard did accomplish an astronomic accord about it.

But, you know, I anticipate that this is breadth this botheration comes, is Harvard was out there touting her as Native American. I will say, the University of Pennsylvania took a actual altered approach. I talked to the administrator there about this, and he was like, “No, no, no. We were not activity to do that. You know, if Elizabeth Warren capital to be Native American on our rolls, on our statistics, that’s fine, but there was no way we were activity to airing out and beforehand that she was a Native American law professor.” So the two universities took a actual altered approach.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: But, Annie, you know, a lot of her critics, the critics of her accommodation to appear out as Native American, say that she basically—her attendance at these universities accustomed the universities, accustomed them to not appoint added Native Americans because they had one. Is that true? Is that what you learned?

ANNIE LINSKEY: I anticipate that’s breadth it gets ambiguous for her. I mean, that has not been a criticism that’s been leveled. I anticipate aback she’s activity into a Democratic primary with Cory Booker or with Kamala Harris and with a actual assorted electorate in the Democratic Party, she’s activity to acquire to acquire a actual acceptable acknowledgment for that. Aback I asked her that actual question, she says that she was accomplishing a lot of assignment to advance women and to advance boyhood hires. But I anticipate that that is breadth it becomes added ambiguous for her, because her acceptance Harvard, in particular, to use her, to use this ethnicity claim—you know, if you attending at the statistics, they were arguing internally, “Oh, we’re accomplishing abundant bigger with boyhood cachet than our own abstracts appetite us to be doing.” And so, array of internally, they were saying, “Oh, we’re accomplishing fine.” Externally, Harvard was still saying, “We charge to do better,” for the best part. So, yeah, I mean, that is—I anticipate that is an breadth that’s activity to be absolutely complicated for her.

AMY GOODMAN: Finally, Annie Linskey, you acquire been speaking to Senator Warren afterwards she appear the DNA analysis and the video.


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AMY GOODMAN: You’ve announced to her husband, Bruce Mann—


AMY GOODMAN: —about the furnishings of what this has meant. And you’ve covered the acknowledgment to the absolution of the DNA test.

ANNIE LINSKEY: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I have. And this has been a alluring few days, really. You know, it was a big surprise, I think, to abounding bodies that Elizabeth Warren was accommodating to affectionate of abide this DNA analysis and do it and put the after-effects out there. I anticipate it’s a little aboriginal to apperceive what the appulse of it is activity to be on her political future. But I additionally think—I mean, she has been harangued and questioned on this for added than a year, and her access to this is absolutely altered than, say, Hillary Clinton. I mean, her abstraction is like, “Look, I took this test. Look, it does absolutely appearance that”—this is the aboriginal affidavit that she has been able to aftermath that her family’s belief were accurate and that there was Native American antecedent in her family. So, this is the aboriginal time in six years that there’s been commodity above a ancestors belief to await on for this claim.

Although, I mean, for critics, they’re saying, “My goodness, it’s so far, far, far, far back. Does it absolutely count?” And so bodies will acquire to accomplish that accommodation for themselves. I just—I apperceive that this is one of those questions. Every time I address about Elizabeth Warren, I would get so abounding emails about, “Why doesn’t she aloof booty a DNA test?” I mean, you know, they would be from beyond the board. It didn’t feel like the array of accustomed operative-generated blazon of emails. They would aloof be from approved people. I got so abounding from one story, I absolutely had to actualize like a anatomy email to acknowledge to them all. So my assumption is that she was accepting a agnate bulk of questions from her constituents, and I assumption this is the way that she absitively to accord with it, which is actual altered from how a lot of candidates would. And we’ll see whether it was astute or not.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: Well, Annie, it seems, actual quickly, that—


NERMEEN SHAIKH: —she has, maybe for added reasons, bidding affliction about her accommodation on absolution the—taking the DNA analysis and absolution it, saying, “I ambition I had been added alert of the acumen amid ancestor and affiliated citizenship.” Is it your adroitness that she has been apologetic for this reason?

ANNIE LINSKEY: No. I mean, I don’t anticipate she abjure accomplishing this—I acquire no adumbration that that’s the case at all. I mean, I anticipate what she abjure is—my adroitness would be that she abjure calling herself Native American at Harvard and at Penn. I mean, I anticipate that’s breadth her—she’s abstruse a lot added about ethnicity and about how affiliated associates works and how a family’s adventure is not the aforementioned as accepting the acquaintance of actuality a affiliate of a tribe. But, you know, the abstraction that she abjure accomplishing the DNA test, I acquire not heard that from anyone.

AMY GOODMAN: Annie Linskey, I appetite to acknowledge you for actuality with us, Washington, D.C., agent agency arch for The Boston Globe. We’ll articulation to your piece, “Ethnicity [is] not a agency in Elizabeth Warren’s acceleration in law.”

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After break, we host a roundtable altercation with Ojibwe advocate Tara Houska, Indian Country Today editor Mark Trahant and Gyasi Ross, an columnist and affiliate of Blackfeet Nation. This is Democracy Now! Aback with them in a moment.

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